"Whats Love Got to Do With It?" Podcast About How Parents Can Help their Child with Autism Navigate Meaningful Relationships

Transcript:

Hi everyone! Welcome to the Parent Partner, an initiative I started about 9 months ago to help parents of children with Autism learn through every moment to celebrate every milestone. Thank you to anyone who has watched this platform truly grow since May of last year! It's been wonderful to read through some of your emails and DMs and really think about your situation and consult with my BCBAs or other clinicians I work with. It's truly been a really eye-opening experience and I hope that what I do has been helpful to you as well! I’ve gotten more than a few emails about the 2 previous podcast episodes I’ve done about Early Intervention and ARFID and even my friends have told me that they enjoy the podcasts most so I decided to do a podcast about matching this month's theme: love. 

Love is something that can be really beautiful. I think when you are surrounded by the right people, you can have a more optimistic outlook on life, you may become a bit more thoughtful and learn more about yourself than you could have ever learned about yourself on your own. This goes for both loving your friends and potentially loving a partner. But love does involve a bit of luck. Sometimes I think about the idea of soulmates, which can extend to platonic relationships but is usually discussed in terms of romantic relationships. Sometimes I wonder “what can someone do if their soulmate lives in Austria and they live in Brazil? Do they just go on without any access to or idea of their soulmate? Is any search for true camaraderie or love, moot? Will whoever they end up with not be their soulmate, no matter how much consideration, care, and acceptance they share with each other?”

I think the idea of love ultimately comes down to luck. I sometimes even find myself telling my close friends that I am so grateful of the fact that we are alive in the same time period, went to the same high school or college, at the exact same time, or else we would have never had the chance to meet each other. One of my favorite podcasts, The One Take Wonder, said this beautifully in her Episode 81 which was also dropped very close to this Valentine's Day, take a listen:

[audio footage from One Take Wonder, 'Rasputin's Influences on Cakes and Evil Girls with Boyfriends,' 11:06-11:41]

She goes on to talk about how everyone is working to maximize their odds in the love game, whether it's staying physically fit and attractive or learning the unspoken rules of the dating world, and I think this idea that love is luck shows up in the heartfelt Netflix original, Atypical which first aired in 2017. Now I hadn’t been much of a show watcher back then so I had not heard of the show until very recently and let me tell you, I love it! So for some background for anyone who hasn’t watched yet, Atypical is a show about an 18-year old boy named Sam who has Autism Spectrum Disorder and is navigating high school friendships, familial relationships, and love. From the very first scene of the first episode we see that Sam is making it known to his therapist that he is interested in finding a girlfriend this school year. He’s being straightforward as usual, but seems pretty intent on finding the tools to make that happen. But Sam’s mother is pretty against this idea and when she confronts Sam’s therapist about this, she mentions that its been 32 days since his senior year of high school started and he has not experienced any breakdowns, which is really great news for Sam. On the other hand, the therapist points out that people with Autism have that desire to be wanted and loved by others. When I first watched season 1, I really agreed with the therapist’s point of view: Sam is 18 years old by this point, he’s exploring his independence, and he has done well with making solid friends thus far, mainly his close friend Zahid. Sam has a reliable safety network, 2 knowledgeable parents, a dependable sister, and his friends and therapist. I thought this was an appropriate time to at least discuss dating with him, and talk about the rules. 

The importance of guiding your kiddo through the rules of romance or even making new friends is exemplified immediately in the next scene, when  Sam is conducting his own research on girls, when he stumbles upon a video, probably a podcast bro, essentially saying “[its key to] insult them! Something like “baby those are some serious bug eyes you got.” This is absolutely not the guidance Sam needs, which we see in a future scene when he tries to use that rhetoric. Spoiler: it doesn't work well. What works a bit better is when Sam did some of his research with his trusted crew of people, his friends and family. At one point he asks his sister Casey, who’s I think a year or 2 younger than him, about what girls around their age like to talk about. I think when Sam opens up to those who love and support him, it gives him the opportunity to gain some sage advice from those who care about him.

This brings me back to Sam’s mother, because no one loves Sam as much as she does, but it’s interesting to see that she seems to be the most concerned about Sam’s desire for a girlfriend, if not the only concerned. The discrepancy was even more stark when Sam’s younger sister gets a boyfriend and she is even less concerned about that. I think Sam’s mother’s concern was fairly reasonable especially when watching Season 1 for a second time, however I did not like the fact that she decided to shut down the idea completely, because again, the desire is still there. And Sam is not alone in this. In one of the supplementary readings titled “Common Venues in Romantic Relationships with Symptoms of Autism and Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder.” Soares talks about individuals with Autism are portrayed as quote “insensitive and cold. Some traits such as dislike being touched and poor comprehension of social signs contribute to social stereotypes labeling individuals with Autism as asexual or uninterested in romantic relationships, which is reinforced by the media which frequently considers autism as opposed to romantic love.” unquote. And I think Sam’s mother may think that Sam isn’t ready to date, but may also think that it will eventually annoy or bother him. Sam’s mother knows so much about who Sam is in terms of core interests, Antarctica, penguins, birds, technology, but as moms do, she doesn't keep up with his most current interests. Many times in this first season at least, we see Sam’s mom ask if he wants to go get ice cream at his favorite place like they used to, and I always wonder if she picks up on the fact that Sam is no longer really interested in that. Sam is starting to dive into some areas that used to really repel him. At one point, he asks his mother to go to the mall and update his wardrobe, but she suggests against it, mentioning that he used to have meltdowns at the mall due to the bright lights and loud noise, but Sam insists on going. I think this may be a normal mom thing where she doesn’t want Sam to grow up, but also knows that the world is not so forgiving when it comes to putting yourself in new spaces, even if you need it. And this is kinda shown in the later parts of episode 1.  Sam’s dad offered up Sam’s mom to go to a dance class, seemed a bit nervous to go but ultimately had a good time and actually made a friend. I kinda compared this to Sam wanting to jump into the deep end with dating. It kind of alluded to the idea of social necessity and how even for the mother it was helpful for her having fun and meeting new people This also opened the door for her to have a new experience unrelated to the original group, as the dance class instructor asked if she wanted to get a drink with some of her friends. “Now if you watched that scene, the moments of hesitation prior to going to the class and also before agree to go to drinks with the new friend kind of reminds us that opening yourself up to new experiences and new people is something that's difficult for everyone, not just neurodiverse people, which means we should extend even more grace to neurodiverse people and really encourage and applaud them when they become vulnerable and open with other people.”

Later in this episode, Zahid encourages Sam to ask out a girl who he met while working. On the date, when the girl mentions that she’s a bit insecure about her nose and she always thought it was too big, Sam wholeheartedly agrees and comments “a little, but the rest of your face makes up for it.” By this point, many would agree that if we were sitting on the other side of that table, we would be offended or annoyed, but the girl thinks that Sam’s honesty is refreshing. During this scene, I noticed that the girl is attentive to what Sam likes as he lists off his interests and facts about his life. He mentions that he’s never had sex and she is straightforward when asking if he wants to. Aside from the conversation about sex, I think it is endearing that his partner adopts a similar level of honesty and straightforwardness that she knows he responds well to. The rest of the date seems to go well, but when he was invited to her place, he pushed her off of the bed and she tried initiating an intimate moment. She yells at him and uses a slur, essentially to ask him quote“what was wrong with him” unquote. This scene was a bit disheartening because I believe at this scene it's where both parties feel “it all went wrong.”

And that's the thing about dating. It could be going well then at any moment it could really all go wrong for either party. And I think the best you can do for your kiddo is to recognize that one day they may want to date, and that they need to know the well-known, important rules like understanding consent, as well as some of the unspoken rules, like having conversations without interrupting or subtle eye contact and nonverbal communication.

Around the very end of episode 1 of season 1, Sam says “Penguins mate for life, so penguins aren't like people, they’re better.” This touches on the idea that people with Autism may crave intimacy but also need the dependability and stability to be at the forefront of that relationship. And this doesn't stop at the early stages! There’s a book I began reading titled “The Journal of Best Practices: A Memoir of Marriage, Asperger Syndrome, and One Man’s Quest to be a Better Husband, by David Finch, where he openly talks about his wife diagnosing him with Aspergers in adulthood and how it has manifested itself within their marriage. I will read a bit from his work:

 Quote “Before doing something or going somewhere, do you need to have a picture in your mind of what’s going to happen.. To prepare yourself mentally first? Do you prefer to wear the same clothes and eat the same food everyday?” Those are all yes.”

“It's tricky being married to me…To the casual neurotypical observer, I could probably pass myself off as neurotypical, were it not for… distinguishing characteristics of my disorder, persistent intense preoccupations and unusual rituals…Over the years, I have learned some ways to compensate. When I know ahead of time what I will encounter in a particular situation, I can prepare.” unquote. I think this manifests itself in Sam’s dating life as well. With a supportive team of people around them, teenagers and early adults can prepare for the dating world if they want to be a part of it. 

What’s recommended for people with Autism entering the dating world is surprisingly to balance self-awareness with awareness and understanding of their partner. Even if your child isn’t old enough to consider serious relationships at this time, some really good practice is just learning about understanding their friends’ or sibling’s feelings deeply. I think learning to be attentive to others emotions is key as it gives them insight into some of the nonverbal cues. A lot of children with Autism learn basic emotions like happy sad mad thought cue cards early on, but they may be at an age where they need to build on that with new emotions. What does disgust look like? How about confusion or grief? I think building upon some complex emotions and even discussing what nonverbal language could be with those emotions would be great. 

I also think that conversations about consent and bodily autonomy are truly the crux of what talking about romantic relationships with your kiddo with autism is truly about. I think understanding that "my body is mine and their body is theirs" can really get them a long way through the dating experience because I think that is sometimes what even gets muddled for neurotypical people. And I think being confused about nonverbal language is not completely unique to those with autism. I think there are so many cases where the vibes were just off during an experience and some people cross that gray line in terms of consent and truly understanding what bodily autonomy is. That's something that you really have to discuss with your kiddo, remembering the idea that their body is theirs is something that they should kind of start with earlier actually, regardless of if they're ready to date or not. But I think it truly should be amplified during discussions about dating and developing relationships beyond friendships with other people. 

At the end of the day, my opinion of Atypical and the two different sides of the spectrum where it's like the therapist is super open to Sam exploring the romantic world, whereas the mom is kind of like wanting to keep him within the most safe part and just allowing him to maintain these strong friendships he's already established. I think it's a really interesting dynamic considering the therapist is more on the medical perspective and the medical side of things, where she follows things by the book. But I think her encouraging these new experiences for Sam, whereas the mom is a mom and she's not like following any medical model. But I think her being on the side of, you know, maintaining status quo with Sam and not wanting him to explore is very interesting because usually the social perspective is what is saying, like, the world should be more accepting of neurodiverse people, whereas the medical model sometimes encourages putting people with Autism Spectrum Disorder in a box and has them conform to neurotypical language and conformities. But I think it's really interesting for that dichotomy in the show. I wouldn't say I fully agree with either side of it because as I watch the show, or more like watch season 1 in its entirety, I won't spoil anything. But I think the mom had a lot more reason to be skeptical of Sam and his diving into the romantic realm. 

I think there's a really good middle ground in between the therapist's perspective and the mother's perspective where I don't think the therapist should just say "go for it to Sam" without providing a lot more tools. I think in the show, the therapist provided a few social rules for Sam, which was really great. But I think she didn't really dive deep into the important stuff. If that's why the mother was upset with the therapist about encouraging Sam to just dive into romance, then I agree with the mother on that. On the other hand, I don't think it was great for the mom to be like shutting Sam out from the entire experience as he is 18 years old. I think that was an appropriate time for him to start exploring that, especially because he was still in high school, where as long as he finds someone who's at the age of consent as he is 18, I think high school is a nice, small, confined, close to home area that he can explore that. So that's my take on Atypical. I really enjoy the show. It's really insightful and it kind of shows a bit of the familial aspect as well as their social aspects outside of the home in different areas too. I love that Sam is also someone who's working. So he has these different spaces that he's in. He's at work and he has certain rules he needs to follow that he might not follow at home, that he might not follow at therapy, that he might not follow at school. And I think that was a really great way to represent someone with Autism who's exploring and navigating all of these different spaces. And that's my take. I feel like everyone, I don't want to say these are required readings and required watchings, but I feel like everyone who is listening to this should watch Atypical, at least season 1. Then you can take that time to process, listen to this again. Let me know in the comments, if you agree with me! I'm interested to see! The show is from 2017, so I think at least half of you guys might have seen a bit of this already. Let me know whose perspective you agree with more: the therapist or the mother. Or do you have a middle ground and, you know, you're kind of on the father side of it where you want your son to explore, but you also love him very dearly and you have your concerns as well. I think that would be a really cool discussion. And I wish I kind of had someone else here to yap to about it, but thank you so much for listening!

If you made it this far, I absolutely love you and I love you for listening. And I hope you love Atypical too. Thanks so much for listening again! I don't know if I'm going to post a visual to this one. I'm recording in a new space. So hopefully this is recorded in a way that's very audible and clear to you guys. If you have any questions, please email theparentpartnertpp@gmail.com. You can also go to the website, leave a comment or send in something through the Contact Us part of the website. Thank you so much for listening!

Referenced Show:

Sara Rashid, (2017, August 11). Antartica (Season 1, Episode 1). In J. Jason Leigh, Atypical. Netflix.

Sources:

Finch D. The Journal of Best Practices: A Memoir of Marriage, Asperger Syndrome, and One Man’s Quest to Be a Better Husband. Simon and Schuster; 2012.

Soares LS, Alves ALC, De Souza Costa D, et al. "Common venues in romantic relationships of adults with symptoms of autism and Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder". Frontiers in Psychiatry. 2021;12. doi:10.3389/fpsyt.2021.593150

Ep. 81: Rasputin’s Influences on Cakes and Evil Girls With Boyfriends. Apple Podcasts. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/one-take-wonder/id1685790890?i=1000693195075. Published February 18, 2025.